The Tale of a Surrogate Mother
By Kriti Mukherjee • Nov 20th, 2011 • Category: 24/7 Talk is Cheap - The Blogloading...
Chatty Divas
An Indian Story: The Surrogate Mother
I have become a kind of connoisseur in the contrast and similarities of India vs US living. In fact, I find I’ve become a magnet for peculiar stories around the subject since I started writing this blog!
I recently had a few friends over for drinks. Among them was this couple who had recently had twins through a surrogate mother. Surrogacy as a subject has intrigued me as an option to couples who find themselves at the end of the road. I am amazed by the many layers of emotions that go into the lives of the people who choose this as a method to have a family.
My head often brims with questions whenever the topic comes up and here I was face to face with the parents of surrogate twins for the first time. I naturally channeled all my attention on them and shamelessly bombarded them with unadulterated, embarrassing questions.
This was an Indian couple based in the US who chose an Indian surrogate mother. They even managed to get the surrogate mother to stay in their parents’ house in India so they could keep a close eye on her health and needs. They spoilt her to the core and treated her like a queen.
The Surrogate and a Sonogram
The crisis started when the sonogram of her womb showed twins. She threatened to walk out on them if she wasn’t paid double the amount they had agreed on. My friends were at the risk of losing their sanity along with their children if they didn’t cough up the amount that was demanded.
It was a nightmare worse than they had ever gone through and those nightmares were hell as it were. This was their only dream and she was their only hope. After weeks of persuasion and gallons of tears they reached a compromise and she agreed to give them the twins for a considerable rise in the payment. My friends gathered as much financial help as they could to see their babies and settled down to wait for their arrival.
Manav, the husband returned to his job in the US while Priya stayed on to look after the woman who would perform the miracle that she couldn’t. She was thrilled and oozing excitement in every step.
They lived apart for six months when suddenly there were complications and the surrogate mother had to be taken in for an emergency C section. The twins were delivered but they were far from any comprehensible human form. Both were put in ventilators while syringes were pierced in their brand new skins to keep them alive.
In India, The Milk of Human Kindness
After a couple of months in this state one twin seemed to stabilize and respond to formula while the other developed an allergy to any kind of nutrition given to him. He would immediately throw up everything that was put in his system. Manav and Priya were again thrown into abysmal grief. Priya was beyond any consolation when the doctor announced that breast milk was the only thing that provided a safe option.
Manav was frantic! “Where the hell am I going to get breast milk from?” he screamed. Priya started weeping all over again. That night Manav took his burdened shoulders, bloodshot eyes and throbbing head out of the hospital to find respite in a smoke.
In the comfort of his own solitude he allowed his tears to flow freely. His throttled sobs must have been audible because when he lifted his head he was face to face with Dharam ji, the security head of that wing in the hospital. Dharam ji did not ask any questions and simply put an assuring hand on Manav’s shoulder. That was enough – Manav spluttered his entire saga to Dharam ji.
“Itni si baat hain? (Is that all?)” was Dharamji’s reassuring response. I am told that since then Manav and Priya were showered with breast milk from all the rooms that had new mothers. Their story spread like wildfire and every new mother in that hospital took up the challenge of keeping this baby alive.
Every room in that wing not only gave the initial bottle of their breast milk to the baby but even inquired about refills after. The baby miraculously took to the milk and survived. He is 7 months now and a handsome toddler with the energy of more than 30 mothers in him.
When Manav and Priya took their babies back to their parents’ house, their freezers were full of breast milk from new mothers from all over who knew their story. That baby had an over-fill and never had to run out of the only thing that he could tolerate.
Mother India
This incident had such a powerful impact on the new parents that they moved to India for good. Their hearts filled with gratitude to India and its mothers, they were suddenly guilt-ridden about ever having chosen to leave. Their son was the son of Indian soil and they could never keep him away from it – especially because they believe that their son would have never had a chance at survival if they were anywhere else in the world.
We now joke that no one would challenge this baby with “agar ma ka doodh piya hain to bahaar aa (a common Hindi masala movie dialogue that challenges one’s masculinity literally translated as ‘if you have ever had mother’s milk – come out and fight’).
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Kriti Mukherjee is a marketing consultant by profession. She says, "I like to think I am a happy person who can make a difference in people's lives. Absolutely love to travel and am nuts about my family. I write to hear my thoughts and to see what people have to say about them." She blogs at http://kriti-howaboutthis.blogspot.com/
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Wow – this story made my hair stand, and brought tears to my eyes….fascinating story, beautifully told!!
That was some ordeal. It is amazing how help comes when you need it most. Thank you for sharing this Kriti
An amazing story… human kindness always surprises and one never knows where it will come from..
What an incredible story! I am so happy for Manav, Priya and their babies, who were given the gift of life by the amazing mothers of India.I love the hindi movie’s dialogue at the end, “Agar Maa ka doodh piya hai”
Thank you for sharing this beautiful story with us, god bless.
Thank you for sharing such a story with us Kriti..it just goes on to show that humanity still exists..It has given me hope that maybe I have some better things in store for me.
OMG!!! No other words can describe my amazement! Such greed and selflessness together!It is just overwhelming.
-PORTIA
Wonderful…salutes to the mothers and the motherland.
I’m always amazed that people walk around day in day out like they don’t care and when something happens they can all pull together to fight for survival. It restores my faith in humanity.
Kriti you have a wonderful way with words, when I read your posts I’m always left feeling a great sense of emotion. There are not many people who can do that with writing, it’s an amazing talent.
Oh this got me into a lot of reflection Kriti. The topic is just timely since my dad has been suggesting that I consider it if ever I will not be finding a husband for me (LOL *blush)…
I’ve never thought about it but since my time is running out~ well, I have it at the back of my mind as an option.
Now going back to your story… Dark clouds seemed to shadow the blessings ~ wow, just imagine having twins (except, of course, for the double pay). Then, the other need that arose paved a way for others to share what they have.
Your story has softened me a lot. It really takes one to listen to the whole story. I loved it Kriti
Loved this story though I was saddened by the children’s illness but the kindness of strangers brought a huge smile to my face and restored my faith in mankind. Wonderful ending…Thanks for sharing!!
What an awesome story…brought tears to my eyes.
@Swati – so glad you enjoyed the not so little episode in their life. I was fascinated too
great story you expressed it well. I am so happy for the couple their babies and the ones who were able to help. Such blessings for them all. thank you for sharing this.
@Rimly – isn’t it?? I thought the same too…
@Savira – what a grand gesture right?! Human kindness and cruelty both are topics that can be written about in volumes.
Amazing story, Kriti.
@Sulekha – well the dialogue is so apt in this case : ). But we can count on Bollywood dialogues to fit into any situation in life right? There is such a well of dialogues there : ) Thanks for coming by…
@Alpana – I am sure you have great things in store for you. COunt your blessings right now instead of looking for them. Sometimes we miss out on what we have when we go looking for what we might …. wow, when did I get that profound? Wish I could follow my own advice sometimes.
Kriti:
Thanks for this post. I have wondered many times about this and here you are, narrating this episode. It is quite sad that motherhood which is taken for granted by women is also partial to some. I am just not able to imagine the emotional quotient of the couple while they were going through this.
Joy always,
Susan
@Portia – thank you so much for coming by and leaving a thought. I was amazed by this story too. It is simply overwhelming!
@Janaki – yes a really dandy salute is what they deserve! Thanks a ton for your comment and taking the time to read this.
@Sarah – thank you very much for your compliment! That really does make me more brave : ). Yes even the most unassuming person can really turn around to make or break something! This story is proof.
@Melissa – thank you very much for sharing that part of your life here. Well its a great option for anyone really! This is where science can make our lives flow seamlessly even if there is a hitch on the way. Let me know how it goes with the decision making…
@David – thank you very much for taking the time to read the story and so glad you enjoyed it!
@Bongo – thank you! I hope those tears were happy ones : )
Hello Kriti
Thank you sharing this with us…Made my eyes well up and my throat catch. We have heard of stories where mothers have breast fed babies who aren’t fortunate to have their own mother’s milk. Nevertheless, so many mothers who may have gone through their own deliveries recently, sharing milk so selflessly is so heart-warming. I wish your friends and their babies all the very best. And I hope the little one can now eat other foods as well.
Best
Padmavani
I meant ‘so many mothers’
Brought tears to my eyes ……
@Padmavani – I was all teary eyed when I heard the story as well. I just couldn’t keep it to myself – had to share. You have made my effort worthwhile! Thank you so much!
@Frane – to mine too : ) Thanks for coming by!
Fascinating story; thanks for bringing this very important issue to attention of readers, esp from a South Asian perspective. Yet it strikes me that all the commentators seem to be young, and yet to be confronted with the realities of infertility that many women face.
I am one of those many (South Asian diasporic) women – and may end up facing the necessity of surrogacy.
It took me a long time to find a suitable husband, and by the time I did, I already found out (by chance) that I had fertility problems. We never had a chance to have a real wedding because we had to embark on IVF right away. After several years, and many IVFs later, we are still childless. Meanwhile, most of my then-single girlfriends are now married, some with 2 or 3 kids. Though supportive, they have no idea what my life is like. Infertility is the most trying thing I’ve ever been through. At the moment, we are considering egg donation in India. But everything you read in the news, about women donating eggs or being surrogates just for money, or possibly being coerced, raises lots of ethical issues. Especially if one is of South Asian descent oneself.
Ladies, I would encourage all of you to be aware that as annoying as it sounds, it’s best to try to conceive young, preferably before age 35. Fertility treatment (especially surrogacy) is expensive, time consuming, and emotionally draining. If you can conceive without it, that’s ideal. Dont be afraid to ask your gyn to offer you basic fertility tests- they’re cheap, and helpful. And most of all, dont be afraid to reach out — to friends, or on the internet. Thanks again for bringing this story out.
What a shocking yet heartwarming story. I may need to consider surrogacy (I’ve had many miscarriages, both from natural pregnancies, and through IVF and other fertility treatments). Because surrogacy in the US is so expensive, and because we’re South Asian, we may consider India. But the more I hear, the more shocking it is, whether you are South Asian or not.
Surrogates in the US of course need the money. But surrogates in India who need the money are often in such dire economic straits that they may resort to extortion, as detailed above. It’s sad that India’s supposedly booming economy is only booming for some. I’d love it if India’s economic climate allowed surrogates there to do it also because they wanted to do a beautiful thing for another woman.
Great post Kriti a very challenging subject. One that needs more than I can give here. Keep writing and God bless the children and mothers and you.
Kriti, thought I’d chip in here and tell you how thought-provoking this post was. On the one hand you have the couple who wants to be parents so badly and the woman who due to financial needs bargains on the price of babies, like some common commodity. And then you have all those mothers responding with their precious gift. All humans and each responding in a different way.
I wonder how common surrogacy is in India and whether it works out well for most couples. Does anyone have experiences to share?
@Jan – so glad it brought happiness to you just like it did when it happened to my friends! Thank you for coming over and sharing your thoughts.
@Tilak – it really is, isn’t it?
@Susan – all’s well that ends well and the ending to this is fabulous! These kids are a constant source of happiness to their parents now and I am sure that’s the way its going to be. Thank you for your thoughts on the same.
@Aysha – I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through. I am sure it is a very trying situation indeed. But I have to say there is hope. A friend of mine had her first child at the age of 40 after trying for several years. I may be able to give you some leads of very good centers in India who take you through the entire thing. Another friend of mine is actually using one of those centers for a surrogate pregnancy and her unborn child’s surrogate mother is now 4 months pregnant. SO dear friend hang in their and let me know if you need leads. Thank you very much for coming and sharing your life with us here and even more for the advice.
@Ami – it is not as black and white as it seems you know. Like I said in my reply to Aysha, you just need to get in touch with the right center. I don’t know what all you have tried but let me know if I can help with getting you in touch with some of these centers. I will be more than happy to help.
@Roy – thank you Sir! Both for your wishes and your comment.
@Lavina – yes this was a story with several layers in it. All kinds of women and their emotions of motherhood! It really is crazy! Thanks for adding your thoughts to this. They are several cases where surrogacy has worked out wonderfully for couples.
Kriti,
I am so glad that I visited the LC link today and came across this story. It takes me back to my parents’ time when kids grew up in large families, with little or no concept of “space” and “personal time”. The easiest/most common solution to the problem above would have been to adopt a child from the immediate family or to bring up the other children in the family as one’s own with no formal adoption. One’s uncle and aunt (father’s elder brother and his wife) were usually considered one’s second set of parents in any case and parents were not so hung up on their “unique” genes.
We are looking into surrogacy in India; and I’ve met several couples who have done it. It’s a minefield of ethical issues, and expensive (although less so than the US). But if you are careful, it can work out.
I think they key is to find a really good clinic. Clinics I’ve spoken to so far have their own surrogate-care package, providing them with all sorts of care and attention; but don’t recommend taking care of them yourself, because it can get too personal; as noted in the story Kriti told.
I don’t know what we’ll ultimately decide. But being told you can’t carry your own child is devastating enough. Using all the money you saved up for a down payment on an apartment, for fertility treatment and eventually surrogacy, can be financially devastating. But if you are desperate to have a genetically related family, as we are, surrogacy is a viable possibility.
Very interesting story. Lavina, India is I think currently the world’s leader in surrogacy, in part because it was not regulated. But now the government is issuing new regulations. (Surrogacy in the US is regulated mostly by states, California and Florida being best so far. Canada is difficult but centrally regulated I think; and UK is in the midst of rewriting legislation, but surrogacy there is a legal minefield so few do it.)
A quick google news search will reveal that India is increasingly used by foreigners for surrogacy; specifically white foreigners; hence bringing to fore issues of financial need, bargaining, and treating human life creation like commodities, even without meaning to, as Lavina said. But even for Indian couples, or South Asians from abroad, it raises all sorts of ethical issues. I agree with Kriti and Gita that it is all about finding the right clinic. Kriti, it would be great if you might want to share some resources online? Especially for people who would prefer to remain anonymous rather than contact you.
Anyone thinking about surrogacy in India, I’d also recommend looking at http://www.oneinsix.com/ , the website of a UK South Asian couple, Bobby and Nikki. They’ve been through it; twice! The website is a bit wacky, not superbly well written, and visually hard to read, but has valuable info for those starting out; especially for South Asians.
Kriti: This is a fascinating poetry, beautifully recited. God Bless.
What a touching story. Bless you my sweet friend.
@Neeru – that is a real solid point! Completely missed that angle of things – Even though I don’t think that option came with its own set of complexities, what a great thing to happen if you are surrounded with simple hearts all looking for a happy ending.
@Gita – all the very best with your efforts! I hope you find what you are looking for. Yes an important lesson to learn there but I may have done the same thing if I were in my friend’s shoes too. I would want to take care of the mother, of my child/children inside her and of everything else. I wouldn’t micromanage or anything but its great to be close while everything is happening. That of course comes with its own risks – the kind my friends had. Thanks for your comment.
@Zia – that is very informative and helpful! I would have shared the websites here but what I have really are phone numbers of doctors working in these different clinics. And I have the numbers because I was talking to them for yet another friend of mine. But one can write to me at kritimukherjee937@gmail.com. Thanks for coming by and commenting.
@Tapas – thank you very much for your kind comment!
Kriti, very interesting post. I’d encourage both you and Lavina to consider other posts or stories in future, regarding women and fertility; especially South Asian women. So many women of all backgrounds are turning to fertility treatment, yet are afraid to share their situations with others; so other women think fertility is nothing to worry about.
As an HR manager with a large company, I’ve worked with a staggering number of women in the workforce who face fertility issues. And yet most of them are unwilling to tell any colleagues, leading to a complete unawareness in our cultures of how common it is.
I’ve mediated health insurance disputes for treatment (most health insurance doesn’t cover IVF, egg donation, or surrogacy; but most DO cover IUI (inter-uterine insemination); and some cover drugs for IVF). I’ve arranged for work-from-home for women who needed to go to clinics often during the day.
I’ve even helped transfer several women seeking surrogacy to our offices in Florida and California, so while they had to bear the financial burden at least they could continue working.
Most of these women are NOT the stereotypical women who the media depicts as concentrating on their career until it’s too late to have a baby. These are strong powerful women who’ve either tried to find a partner for more than a decade, in vain (as many men are still afraid of strong women); or who have been trying to conceive naturally for years and years.
I support Aysha’s advice for women over age 30 to be aware that our fertility is not limitless. If you’re over 35, and have not had a chance to try to conceive, seriously consider getting basic hormone tests from your gyn (they are cheap blood tests; insurances should cover them), consider co-parenting with a trusted male friend, or consider being a single mother. I know it’s not fun, but if you want a child, you deserve one, no matter what. And it’s better to be informed.
Thanks for this article. My cousin in the UK used an Indian surrogate, and it worked out well; although Indian legal bureaucracy is hard, and she had to leave her child behind with relatives for 4 months, before paperwork came through.
After many heartbreaking years of trying to have a child via IVF, I myself am hoping to go to India for egg donation. I hope to get a more particular ethnic match, and it’s much less expensive than the US, and somewhat less expensive than the UK. It’s a much less stressful venture than surrogacy; but similar economic exploitation issues are possible. So I am wary. I’d love to see posts about diasporic South Asians going to India for egg donors.
My UK cousin says that most UK fertility doctors tell patients that menopause for South Asian women is often quite early. So ladies, do cherish – and use – your fertility, while you still have it.
@Kriti, you seemed to have touched a raw nerve with this post. I guess so many women in their 30′s are now dealing with these issues.
@Zia – thanks for the links.
@Kara – thanks for the info.
I’ve been planning an in-depth piece on surrogacy ever since I did the story on adoption which got a lot of response from readers. I see a real need for information here.
I am traveling to India shortly and will definitely look into the options available for women who want to start a family. Kriti, thanks once again for addressing this issue and will discuss a possible piece with you.
@Kara – thanks for the in-depth comment! We need many more women like yourself out there. To deal with career and its trials over and above challenges such as infertility is almost running against the wind! Hence salute to all your good work!
@Alia – All the very best with your decision! I know its not going to be easy just don’t lose hope easily ok. Thanks a ton for your comment and filling all of us in on the comparative budgets of the countries. People like you make articles like mine so much more interactive and useful.
@Lavina – anytime : )
Lavina is right, Kriti’s piece has touched a raw but welcoming nerve in a lot of women! Despite huge numbers of women (and men) facing fertility problems, there’s very little inspiring or helpful advice for South Asian diaspora women; and I thank you for this.
I echo Alia and others’ suggestions for additional pieces from Kriti and/or Lavina on South Asians and fertility. Especially egg donation.
I’m in my early 40s, and have been unsuccessfully trying to conceive for many years, both naturally and with medical help. I’ve put many aspects of my career on hold, and forsaken the dream of owning our own home. Currently we’re looking into egg donation.
Egg donation in the US is unaffordable for us. (US Donors, compensated $8,000+, are often young women who donate only for financial reasons, and before they have children of their own (possibly affecting future health). We looked at the UK (where we have relatives), cheaper, as legally donors can receive only £250 (due to rise to £750). But UK donor rates are very low, as the govt has abolished total anonymity (children at age 18 now have the right to receive donor info.
So now we’re looking at egg donation in India. It’s simpler than surrogacy, but still full of economic and class issues, and fear of situations like the story here. Also, it’s difficult to encourage community-specific egg donors in India, as some fertility acquaintances of mine are finding. I’d love to see posts or stories about these varied aspects of fertility options. Thanks!
Shivani, will definitely work with Kriti on identifying sources and interviews for such a story. With women marrying later and later, there is certainly a need for addressing these issues.
@Shivani – sorry for all your troubles! I wish it could be as simple as saying – “Take my egg” but I have never been taken too seriously on that matter : ). Hence like Lavina said, we will see what else we can dig out for you.
I just saw this article. It’s one of the first I’ve seen not only about surrogacy in India re diasporic women, but also fertility re: diasporic women!
Lavina, it’s not just about women marrying later. Many women facing fertility issues have been looking and looking for a guy for years if not decades, in vain – knowing their fertility was declining through no fault of their own. Still others have already been trying fertility treatments for years and years, with no success. Additionally, genetics (many doctors informally say that South Asian women tend to hit menopause earlier than others), environmental toxins (xeno-estrogens), and the Pill (which masks most hormonal imbalances- even menopause- while you’re on it), are also factors.
Like some of the above women, I am currently considering egg donation. One issue affecting egg donation is physical resemble and/or ethnic/genetic connection. We thought India would be a likelier option to find better matches, but we are finding that for anyone seeking specific ethnic/genetic donors, the pickings are slim. (I’m Syrian Christian; trust me, NO fertility centre I’ve checked has donors of my ethnic background). It’s still a reality that many donors do it only for the money; so donors come from communities where there is more poverty. I’m told though that if one places community ads out there for one’s own community, one’s donor will be more likely to be doing it to help out. That is comforting. But we still haven’t found anyone.
There are countless fertility forums on the internet, but very few threads adequately address fertility issues as they affect diasporic South Asian women. And even fewer about treatment options in South Asia, for those who are exploring. So I’m glad you are thinking of more fertility-focused pieces in future.
Lavina, do take time in India to talk to various doctors at fertility centres/hospitals in Mumbai. Jaslok, Bloom/Lilavati, Rotunda, and Corion are just a few. I would also encourage you to think about a piece on egg and sperm donation, and also look at community-specific issues.
Hi Amber, thanks for your detailed comments – will definitely look into this important issue with various hospitals while I’m in India, and also get Kriti’s input since she is now based in India.
Hi I was just doing a search about egg donation and India, and came across this wonderful blog. (I’m in UK). Thank you for this article, and heartfelt comments by all the women.
I am yet another diasporic woman who, along with my husband, am facing fertility problems. We’re not old at all (late 20s)!
I have only minor, fixable fertility problems myself (fallopian tube issues) but my husband’s sperm count has been getting lower and lower. So our only hope is sperm donation. But like Amber above, we are also an ethnic minority (Cochin Jews). As our community is supposedly dying out, we’ve always been mindful of helping to ‘increase’ our community. We never dreamed we’d have problems doing so. And so finding a sperm donor from our community, so we can feel a genetic connection, and be able to honestly tell the child what they are, is important. Even though sperm donation is much easier than egg donation, we havent found any clinics in India (forget about the UK, or even Israel) with donors from our community (or at this point, any Indian Jewish community). So it will be up to us to ‘advertise’ and find someone.
The saddest part of all this: We weren’t even able to have a proper wedding, because we had to start fertility treatments even before getting married, so we just had a quick ‘registry wedding’, thinking we’d get pregnant soon. I never even had a marriage proposal. We’d just learned about our fertility issues, and just talked about that in context of getting married. Several years later, we’re still childless, and have not had a public wedding. It’s not only heartbreaking whenever I hear of a child born to a friend; it’s heartbreaking every time I hear of a friend or even acquaintance who’s engaged or having a wedding.
I look forward to future articles about fertility issues, community-specific egg/sperm donation, and attitudes towards fertility treatment amongst South Asian diasporic communities.
This was a very refreshing article, reminding us that with every painful experience, we can also try to fill our memories with the positive aspects.
Everyone out there should have their fertility status checked (men and women), because fertility treatment — and in particular, surrogacy — costs a lot. It’s an uncomfortable income disparity issue that makes some lucky people feel guilty that they had enough money to fund treatment. But even if you have money, while your friends are buying their first apartment or investing wisely or going on vacations, you could also end up financially devastated for years. It’s worth it, but be aware.
I know, because my best friend had a baby via surrogacy in India two years ago. Between previous fertility treatments which hadnt worked, the surrogacy and associated costs, they are now almost penniless. They were both earning decent incomes — but because of fertility treatments, my friend had to cut down her hours. Then after the surrogacy birth, my friend had to actually quit her job. Why? It’s not commonly known, but visas for surrogate-born babies can take months — in my friend’s case, it took 8 months! If you dont have capable trusted relatives in India, or even if you do, you basically have to wait around until the visas come through, or go back and forth racking up airfare expenses until then. Once my friend was ready to return to work, the economy had tanked, and she’s been unable to find a job since then.
My friend and her husband (by the way they like others never had a real wedding because they had to start fertility treatments, and couldnt afford both, timewise or moneywise) have used up their entire savings to have this child, and at various times, maxed out their credit cards. The dont regret it at all, and feel it was worth it.
But at the same time, they probably wont be able to buy their own apartment for more than a decade at least. And this kid will never have any savings account for college, should he choose to go.
My friend’s family was supportive, and so were her friends. But on another level, everyone also asked “why are you spending this much money?” as if she were wasting it on gold laminated sunglasses.
I agree with all the commenters that infertility is one of the most stressful experiences one can go through, because unlike cancer, it’s not considered an ‘illness’ so one cannot talk about it in a similar way. Some people are sympathetic, but because of the costs associated with treatment, in general, society often regard women and men who spend their life savings on fertility treatment to be “selfish” or “think they’re better than the rest of us.” They think just because they can have sex and get pregnant no problem, anyone who can’t should just suck it up and be glad they’re alive. We need to change these attitudes.